What do you look for in an advanced trail?

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Re: What do you look for in an advanced trail?

Postby urbaindk » October 18th, 2012, 9:51 pm

irishpitbull wrote:
ColorVoyeur wrote:10' gaps can be beginner level... sometimes 15' is beginner level. I've seen jumps with 5' gaps that are way over my head an easily classified as advanced.

I assume you're going to bring up the 3' maximum transition height that I often hear from local TCs? My wheelbase hardly fits on a 3' tall transition.

If these are the initial restrictions, clearly the IMBA/MMBA doesn't give a *beep* about freeride.

Setting limits from the onset is what keeps freeriders like myself building bandit and private. It's about creativity and progression.

It's not about setting limits!

I totally understand where you are coming from and since you have made some points would you be interested in putting in time explain your point of view to the people in charge and do the work that involved to get this off the ground?

To clarify, to those who don't know, you could have a 10-15 gap that is low and fast, of very little consequence. or you could have a steep lip / spine jump that has nearly zero gap that could break you real bad.

As to the 3' transition, that's not a good way to look at it, because of what I said above, you could have a 3' high jump with a long gradual tranny that can send you as far as you want to go given the speed, just not that high. The second drop/gap Kevin built at Stony might be 2' high at best, yet the gap is 14' lip2lip. Wheel base has nothing to do with it. If you want boost, that's clearly a different story.

And don't forget, IMBA / CRAMBA / MMBA does not equal land manager. IMBA's own guideline says 2-3' is beginner, adding 1-2' per degree of difficulty. That would make an expert level jump somewhere between 5-7' high. And I read that as a suggestion not a maximum. IMBA has built parks around the country with much much bigger jumps and drops. Google Santos for example.
see also http://www.imba.com/resources/freeridin ... eride-park

Land managers make the final decision on what flys. Don't fail to make the distinction.

Could that change? Yes, if you put in the time to explain your point to the people that matter. Nobody here is going to hold you back. Seriously it all lies with establishing trust and understanding with the land manager so that they are more open to your ideas!
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Re: What do you look for in an advanced trail?

Postby iamkickstand » October 23rd, 2012, 1:11 pm

AllMountin' wrote:
irishpitbull wrote:Thoughts on rocks?


The Burnt Mtn part of the Big Rock/Cedar Rock ride. I'd recognize it anywhere. Some will look at that and suggest we don't have the rocks/terrain to do it. That section was clearly designed and 'paved' by moving and positioning large rocks. Only difference between there and here is they might be able to source the rocks in the nearby area. We'd have to haul in a truckload and work from there. I don't see that as a significant roadblock.

300hp wrote: an open, direct up route

If you are insinuating that the 'vast majority' of riders want the blown out, fall line climbs of Torn Shirt to be the norm, I'd suggest that you don't have your finger on the pulse of MTBing at all. Or maybe the highway wide, rooty, eroded climbs at Poto(not all of them), with rubber mats to stabilize the hill? Three different blown out lines, created by riders trying to avoid all of the roots? These trails are typically only 'open' because they are always being widened by the 'vast majority' of riders trying to avoid the natural obstacles created by this kind of routing.

The subject at hand seems to be focused more on DH specific advanced trails, with berms and jumps. It's a different, and minimally overlapping skill set and genre from what I'd define as technically advanced XC riding. Creating a true DH run, that necessitates the use of a purpose built DH rig seems like a pipe dream to me. You'd want steep grades, which would make the runs VERY short. You're riding a rig that is only meant to go one way. You'd be building a trail for such a small number of users, because next to no one is going to run out and buy a Spesh Demo 8 for a short, non lift served DH.

I think there *is* a sizable user group that would utilize something more in the AM range of things. A lot of riders prefer this level of bike and travel to begin with. Start with something like the sustained DHs at Merrell, and add some drops, jumps, bigger berms, and whatever else. I do think it would be smart to start with reasonable sized jumps/features, as land managers will be more receptive, and it will help XC riders transition into the genre. Over time, with more riders/more builders/bigger support base, you will gain traction for even bigger building opportunities.


Whatever you do, build a wall ride. They look awesome, are fun to ride, and not that difficult.

I agree with you, but I think what 300hp is suggesting is a way to the top that is not a washed out torn shirt poto type climb. Those are somewhat fun in very small doses (like the exit of the C loop at highland, a very short technical difficult fun climb). I think 300hp (or at least what I hear him saying, and what I would like) is a long sustained switchback "smooth" climb, a lung burner, with a reward! :mrgreen:
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Re: What do you look for in an advanced trail?

Postby G.Cook » November 18th, 2012, 2:43 pm

Advanced trail? Helmetless in fog with hunters.

.....on a ridged 26er :P
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Re: What do you look for in an advanced trail?

Postby jfactor! » December 28th, 2012, 4:21 pm

Apparantly this is an "advanced" trail to many riders in Michigan...
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Re: What do you look for in an advanced trail?

Postby sisu » June 21st, 2015, 3:22 pm

Any updates?
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