Western: Yankee Springs

For posting trail-specific conditions and problems

Postby mikewoods » April 10th, 2008, 10:46 am

as paydirt said, the trail is in great shape. get out and ride it!
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Postby cramer » April 10th, 2008, 10:55 am

Guppie wrote:Yeah its the one with the rubber mat, there is the other nice climb with the mat as well. I thought those were erosion control, just like all the rubber flaps they put in the ground. They added a few of those as well.


I think those rubber flaps were an old way of doing things that has since been shown to be pretty ineffective. As for the mats, I just don't think they belong on a mountain bike trail. I personally like to ride on dirt and they take away from the natural experience. You are correct, they were put there for erosion control due to the original fall line construction and resulting erosion problems. I think I know the other "nice" climb with a mat you're talking about, around mile 8 or so maybe? That one is somewhat challenging on a single speed so I'll be sad if/when it's gone. Maybe they will consider armoring that climb with something natural instead of removing it?

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Postby ReidRules18 » April 10th, 2008, 10:59 am

paydirt_07 wrote:
firefighterdirt wrote:Any damage to Yankee from the storms last night?


I rode it this evening, with Reid and buddah, and it was leaf covered but in great shape. Yankee drains well.

Reid & buddah, thanks again for letting me tag along. 8)


Yep good ridin with you boys. As mentioned trail is in good shape, get out and ride the re-routes to break them in!
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Postby dennismurphy » April 10th, 2008, 11:14 am

cramer wrote:
Guppie wrote:why was it rerouted away from the hill (in the beginning)? Not complaining at all, just curious


Was it the hill with the rubber mat on it right after the creek crossing? (I haven't been there yet since the re-route). If so, there is your answer. Rubber mats don't belong on trails.

Cramer


I think Tim mentioned the DNR had a goal to separate the hiking and biking trails a bit better as well- the reroute accomplished that as well
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Fall line and sustainability

Postby glennd357 » April 12th, 2008, 11:40 am

I have to think there are natural ways to keep "fall line" hills. These hill are what add character to a trail and make it interesting. I've not seen evidence of any technique other than routing around a hill with twisting turns. If a few years from now, that all Yankee is, I will be bummed. Everytime I hear "sustainability", I cringe. I guess I might not be qualified to ask this question since I didn't graduate from the all knowing trail school.
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Re: Fall line and sustainability

Postby duotone » April 12th, 2008, 12:48 pm

glennd357 wrote:I have to think there are natural ways to keep "fall line" hills. These hill are what add character to a trail and make it interesting. I've not seen evidence of any technique other than routing around a hill with twisting turns. If a few years from now, that all Yankee is, I will be bummed. Everytime I hear "sustainability", I cringe. I guess I might not be qualified to ask this question since I didn't graduate from the all knowing trail school.


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Postby Guppie » April 12th, 2008, 5:51 pm

I understand his concern, however unless your out there offering creative inspiration and actually moving dirt, the best thing to say is "thank you for taking care of the trail I love so much"
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Postby paydirt_07 » April 13th, 2008, 6:51 am

If anyone rides this morning, please post up with the conditions.

I know Yankee drains well, but we are looking at a possible early afternoon ride. I rode it last Weds. night after that Tues. rain and conditions were good.
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I see

Postby glennd357 » April 13th, 2008, 8:07 am

Guppie wrote:I understand his concern, however unless your out there offering creative inspiration and actually moving dirt, the best thing to say is "thank you for taking care of the trail I love so much"



I can understand this reaction. I've read (quite a few times now) that the TCs make all the calls, and that trail decisions can't be done by a committee approach. So they are just looking for some warm bodies to implement their plan. I just feel that somebody should say something. I think many people feel too guilty to say anything, so they just praise the effort. In the last 3 years that I have been riding at Yankee, there have been at least 3 tough (challenging and fun) sections that have been completely removed. Other than removing the downed trees, I can't say for sure that the trail is better off.
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Re: I see

Postby purple helmet » April 13th, 2008, 8:43 am

glennd357 wrote:
Guppie wrote:I understand his concern, however unless your out there offering creative inspiration and actually moving dirt, the best thing to say is "thank you for taking care of the trail I love so much"



I can understand this reaction. I've read (quite a few times now) that the TCs make all the calls, and that trail decisions can't be done by a committee approach. So they are just looking for some warm bodies to implement their plan. I just feel that somebody should say something. I think many people feel too guilty to say anything, so they just praise the effort. In the last 3 years that I have been riding at Yankee, there have been at least 3 tough (challenging and fun) sections that have been completely removed. Other than removing the downed trees, I can't say for sure that the trail is better off.


totally understand your point. get involved (chapter meeting tomorrow, founder's 6:30 pm) and get the whole story. then make an informed opinion 8)

if you still like fall line trail, we'll have some special kool-aid for you :lol:
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Re: I see

Postby cramer » April 13th, 2008, 9:23 am

glennd357 wrote:
Guppie wrote:I understand his concern, however unless your out there offering creative inspiration and actually moving dirt, the best thing to say is "thank you for taking care of the trail I love so much"



I can understand this reaction. I've read (quite a few times now) that the TCs make all the calls, and that trail decisions can't be done by a committee approach. So they are just looking for some warm bodies to implement their plan. I just feel that somebody should say something. I think many people feel too guilty to say anything, so they just praise the effort. In the last 3 years that I have been riding at Yankee, there have been at least 3 tough (challenging and fun) sections that have been completely removed. Other than removing the downed trees, I can't say for sure that the trail is better off.


I believe the TCs have the same goal as you, to have fun and challenging trails. They are mountain bikers and love riding the same things most people love to ride. That being said, they have additional responsibilities that play a role in their decisions. Satisfying the land manager may not be on your list of objectives but if you want to continue to have access to trails, it's a good idea to keep that in mind. A washed out, eroded, sandy, rooted 10 foot wide climb may be challenging and fun to ride but it's not very impressive to the land manager. Our ability to build sustainable trails is probably the number one thing that has helped us in getting new trails and expanding old trails.... not to mention just keeping access to the trails we have. Remember, we don't own the land these trails are on and the decisions are not made in a vacuum and without regard to the big picture and all of the interested parties.

Any ideas or methods you want to share about how to keep fall line trails but without the erosion problem, feel free to share them. One method I do know of is called armoring. It's expensive, labor intensive and you end up removing the very technical challenges that I believe you want to preserve. Additionally, some land managers have restrictions on the types of materials that can be brought in to armor a trail. They have environmental concerns and they like to maintain the natural setting as much as possible so they don't want materials that are not typically found in that environment.

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Postby mtbyker » April 13th, 2008, 9:59 am

When did the land managers at yankee start complaining about the rooty ups and downs? They have been there for about 15 years. It's too bad they have a problem with it now, because fast ups and downs are what Yankee is all about. Oh well, we have to do what we have to do I guess.......
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Postby Guppie » April 13th, 2008, 10:22 am

It's a tough balancing act. Not everybody will be happy. I don't really care for the changes, it made YS easier and faster, but I'll still ride it as much as I can. I don't understand everything that goes into trailbuilding so I just trust they will do what is right. It's easy for us to sit back and say 'go straight up the hill', but I guess there's much more too it.

Anybody going to ride Yankee today? Let me know how it drained.
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adpot a section

Postby glennd357 » April 13th, 2008, 12:06 pm

I think and "adopt a section" would be a great idea. I think I've seen this idea floating around somewhere. Let everyone know what materials are ok to use and there would probably be all kinds of creative ideas brought out.


I too am curious about this Land Manager issue. I wonder with how much furor our issues are brought up to the Land Managers, or if we just roll over? I gotta think the bikers put more money into that area than any other group.
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Postby cramer » April 13th, 2008, 4:01 pm

mtbyker wrote:When did the land managers at yankee start complaining about the rooty ups and downs? They have been there for about 15 years. It's too bad they have a problem with it now, because fast ups and downs are what Yankee is all about. Oh well, we have to do what we have to do I guess.......


I guess we are looking at the same thing and seeing two different things. You see a trail that's been the same for 15 years and I see a trail that has had numerous attempts made to mitigate erosion damage. It started with the rubber flaps and ugly mats and has now progressed to re-routes which have taken place every year for several years now.

I'm not sure who is driving the change though, be it the DNR, the MMBA or a combination of the two.

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