Western: Cannonsburg SGA

For posting trail-specific conditions and problems

Re: Western: Cannonsburg SGA

Postby cramer » May 31st, 2010, 11:55 am

killercarbon98 wrote:NATIONAL TRAIL DAY!
Join us on Saturday June 5th at the ski area to cut in a small re-route intended to eliminate the last two sandy, rutted out downhills sections.
9am to 1pm. Bring gloves,water, boots and bug spray. Tools and lunch will be provided. Rain or shine.

I will lead a group to the Game Area for Some Trail Trimming and trail Re-Curving! etc. It's getting thick and straight out there!

Chris
Image



Merrell will be making a donation to pay for a bunch of new loppers, lunch and two 8' white pine trees to be planted at Luton in the future. They will also be giving away a couple of $100 gift certificates to random volunteers as well as other goodies.
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Re: Western: Cannonsburg SGA

Postby RickPlite » June 5th, 2010, 3:36 pm

A big thank you to all that attended the National Trails Day today. Merrell really brings out the crowds, we owe them a big thank you for lunch, prizes, promotions, etc.

Most of the trail has been trimmed and the armoring section is finished, two lines are now open on the armoring. Easy on the left (think cobbled pavers) and advanced on the right (stair drops and bolders). Please do not ride around the rocks, the easy line is very smooth.
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Re: Western: Cannonsburg SGA

Postby yukonjack » June 8th, 2010, 2:12 pm

Nice job on the armoring. That looks like it with outlast all of us. Hats off to the volunteers that built it.
Even though it has an easier path, I still think it needs a by-pass for the recreational riders that frequent CSA on the weekends. Just like the log pile at the ski area (which has a by-pass), its quite easy to ride unless you're lacking in confidence. I'm afraid some beginners may panic and fall on the rocks. I know I wouldn't want to fall there.
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Re: Western: Cannonsburg SGA

Postby spwrozek » June 8th, 2010, 3:44 pm

I disagree with dumbing down the trails by adding bypasses to everything. The trail should not be like a road. It should have rocks and roots. If you do not have the confidence then you can walk around the area. As you get better you will ride it. The first few times I road the really rocky trails at MTU I got stuck and crashed and walked all over the place. You learn and get better and then you can do it.

In this case there is already an easy line. If you fall on it you fall. Pick yourself up and keep going.
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Re: Western: Cannonsburg SGA

Postby yukonjack » June 8th, 2010, 5:53 pm

That's truly ironic..you don't want the trail to be built into a road..but people should be forced to ride and fall on basically a cobblestone road that's been built on the trail.
Sorry for the jest. I couldn't resist.
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Re: Western: Cannonsburg SGA

Postby spwrozek » June 8th, 2010, 7:55 pm

Fair enough, even though I don't agree with your assessment.
Last edited by spwrozek on June 8th, 2010, 9:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Western: Cannonsburg SGA

Postby cramer » June 8th, 2010, 8:28 pm

I think the easy path down the armored section is fairly easy there and doesn't deviate from the overall trail difficulty at the game area. I think it's easier than what it replaced and there was no ride around option before it was put in. I believe it appears more challenging than it is due to the fact that we don't have a lot of rocky trails in MI.

Just my opinion.

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Re: Western: Cannonsburg SGA

Postby cramer » June 8th, 2010, 8:44 pm

yukonjack wrote:Nice job on the armoring. That looks like it with outlast all of us. Hats off to the volunteers that built it.
Even though it has an easier path, I still think it needs a by-pass for the recreational riders that frequent CSA on the weekends. Just like the log pile at the ski area (which has a by-pass), its quite easy to ride unless you're lacking in confidence. I'm afraid some beginners may panic and fall on the rocks. I know I wouldn't want to fall there.


I agree it would hurt more to fall there than on dirt. Hopefully since it's easier than what it looks, if they get afraid looking at it they will get off and walk down or they will ride down it and realize it's not too tough. It's a reasonable suggestion and it's nice to see opinions posted here that are well thought out and considerate. A couple of reasons a ride around is unlikely is that it wouldn't be just a simple trail off to the side as that would suffer the same erosion problems as the original trail. If it were an entirely different route it might work but I don't think the land manager would approve having two different routes on the trail.
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Re: Western: Cannonsburg SGA

Postby yukonjack » June 9th, 2010, 12:36 pm

You're right Cramer about the difficulty in adding a by-pass. If I remember right, that area was once flagged for a reroute that must have been denied by the DNR.
I also agree that here in Michigan most of our trails do not have rocks. This is what makes me nervous about this feature. For most of us, it's not an issue. It's the young families I've seen on weekend
afternoons that I'm worried about. Aside from their potential injuries, I'm concerned with the increased chance of complaints to the DNR that could accompany these injuries.
I met the DNR officer one day at the trail head. He explained to me how this land was purchased and what it's intended use was. As you know, this land is for the hunting. We don't have a right to ride there, we
are allowed to. If the DNR suddenly decides to kick us out, we're all done riding there.
It's the same reason I feared the addition of the skills park at the ski area. One severe injury and we may lose a great trail.
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Re: Western: Cannonsburg SGA

Postby cramer » June 9th, 2010, 4:17 pm

yukonjack wrote:You're right Cramer about the difficulty in adding a by-pass. If I remember right, that area was once flagged for a reroute that must have been denied by the DNR.


I don't know that it was denied, I really don't know one way or the other but I think the reason that route wasn't done was that an effort was put forth to try to preserve that section of trail as close to what was there as possible in the interest diversity and not making things easier than they were before. It's really the only way to preserve a steep grade and solve the erosion problems at the same time, by armoring it. I think that other route that was flagged may have been acceptable to the DNR (DNRE?) if it were the only route but I think they would likely have a problem with having two different routes instead of one.

Agree with the rest of what you wrote, including having the same concerns about the ski area. I try to remind myself that people get hurt mountain biking from time to time and there are risks inherent in the sport that people accept when they do it. Hopefully land managers / owners appreciate this fact and don't over react to someone getting hurt now and then. This is also why it helps us to build according to accepted trail building standards from IMBA, we're not out there experimenting with things that haven't been tested and found to be safe overall.
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Re: Western: Cannonsburg SGA

Postby ReidRules18 » June 9th, 2010, 6:49 pm

Cramer, it sure sounds like you have covered your bases
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Re: Western: Cannonsburg SGA

Postby cramer » June 9th, 2010, 7:49 pm

ReidRules18 wrote:Cramer, it sure sounds like you have covered your bases


Not me, this is just what I've gathered from meetings and talking with the TC a few times- I don't have any official involvement here, though I might be the assistant TC, or was that assistant to the TC, I can't remember. Either way, I do a lot more yappin' on-line than actual work lately.
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Re: Western: Cannonsburg SGA

Postby ReidRules18 » June 9th, 2010, 8:27 pm

cramer wrote:
ReidRules18 wrote:Cramer, it sure sounds like you have covered your bases


Not me, this is just what I've gathered from meetings and talking with the TC a few times- I don't have any official involvement here, though I might be the assistant TC, or was that assistant to the TC, I can't remember. Either way, I do a lot more yappin' on-line than actual work lately.


I doubt that, thanks for your work out there! The game area is a treat to ride on that section now.
"Only when the last tree has died and the last river been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realize we cannot eat money"-Cree Indian
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Recent Trail Conditions

Postby mtb_chick » June 21st, 2010, 10:56 am

Does anyone know what happened to the trail? We tried to ride last week on a dry day and we found the following:
a. a LOT of muddy sections where there usually aren't any
b. significant washed out sections where there usually aren't any (anyone else find the "pothole" right before the plastic mats in the 4th section a bit of a surprise? - End-O!)
c. lots of extra sand in sections that usually aren't quite so sandy

Was there a big storm or have people been tearing through there while it's wet? Rode just a month ago in beautiful conditions and am very surprised at the current trail conditions.

Also wondering if there's any trail clean-up scheduled so we can come out and help.

If you know anything, please let me know!

PS - Big "Thanks!" to whomever fixed the rooty sandy "staircase" with the left turn in the sandpit at the bottom. Seriously digging the cobblestone descent!!!
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Re: Recent Trail Conditions

Postby cramer » June 21st, 2010, 11:56 am

mtb_chick wrote:Does anyone know what happened to the trail? We tried to ride last week on a dry day and we found the following:
a. a LOT of muddy sections where there usually aren't any
b. significant washed out sections where there usually aren't any (anyone else find the "pothole" right before the plastic mats in the 4th section a bit of a surprise? - End-O!)
c. lots of extra sand in sections that usually aren't quite so sandy

Was there a big storm or have people been tearing through there while it's wet? Rode just a month ago in beautiful conditions and am very surprised at the current trail conditions.

Also wondering if there's any trail clean-up scheduled so we can come out and help.

If you know anything, please let me know!

PS - Big "Thanks!" to whomever fixed the rooty sandy "staircase" with the left turn in the sandpit at the bottom. Seriously digging the cobblestone descent!!!


Just a lot of rain this year. I think you would have to go back to the days before mountain biking to find a wetter spring compared to this year. Not really the fault of people riding it wet IMO.

Not sure on the next trail work day, they are usually posted here and in the "volunteers needed" forum on this site.
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