Western: Cannonsburg SGA

[cramer]

horses are NOT allowed there. (I have been told) I hope the damage they caused isn't too bad.

I know there have been signs posted in the past that mysteriously disappeared.

If it would have been me, I probably would have politely informed them about the DNR's rule and then taken thier picture if I had a camera.

It is possible that they did not know horses are not allowed on the trail. Everyone deserves the benefit of doubt at least once.

I think if I had time I would follow them home to get an address to report back to the DNR. I don't believe they should be given the benefit of the doubt either. If you own a horse, you need to find out where it's legal or not legal to ride it. It's highly unlikely that they simply don't know the rules but even if that's true, that's doesn't excuse them.

Cramer

[John_H]

Maybe we should put a big sign up at the trailhead sign so all riders know horses are not allowed? That was bikers will know and tell horse riders the rule. The trail doesn't seem damaged, but there are horse dung piles on the trail in many places. Maybe the DNR can get us some new signs to put up at road crossings?

[Scotty]

horses are NOT allowed there. (I have been told) I hope the damage they caused isn't too bad.

I know there have been signs posted in the past that mysteriously disappeared.

If it would have been me, I probably would have politely informed them about the DNR's rule and then taken thier picture if I had a camera.

It is possible that they did not know horses are not allowed on the trail. Everyone deserves the benefit of doubt at least once.

I think if I had time I would follow them home to get an address to report back to the DNR. I don't believe they should be given the benefit of the doubt either. If you own a horse, you need to find out where it's legal or not legal to ride it. It's highly unlikely that they simply don't know the rules but even if that's true, that's doesn't excuse them.

Cramer

They were undoubtably locals who rode their horses to the trail from their home. There are lots of horse owners (either wealthy people or farmers) in the immediate area. My guess, based on what I know of the mentality of locals around that game area (cyclists, hikers, ORV enthusiasts, illegal garbage dumers, etc.), is that they know the property is off limits to horses but they just don't give a dam.

[kayakpete]

I rode the trail for the first time today. Only saw one pile of horse apples, so I guess it might not have been abused too much by equestrians over the weekend.

Everyone that passed me was really nice. Glad to see friendly MTBers on the trail there. Nice chat in the parking lot as well.

I passed nobody. ;-( Maybe next time.

It seems like a trail that would be appropriate for training for the Iceman. Am I correct in that?

Cheers -

[cramer]

I rode the trail for the first time today. Only saw one pile of horse apples, so I guess it might not have been abused too much by equestrians over the weekend.

Everyone that passed me was really nice. Glad to see friendly MTBers on the trail there. Nice chat in the parking lot as well.

I passed nobody. ;-( Maybe next time.

It seems like a trail that would be appropriate for training for the Iceman. Am I correct in that?

Cheers -

It closes after Sept. 14th for the season so it's not of much use for Iceman training. Also, the hills are much bigger at the Iceman. Try the ski area right to the north if you haven't already, that's open later in the year. If you want to meet some of the MMBA people come on out to Luton this Saturday at nine AM for the National Trails Day event. There should be a large number of volunteers there and you can learn how to build trail too.

Cramer

[TrailBomber88]

Trail is the best I've ever seen it as of 6/5/09. I've been riding there for 4 years and have seen it in all kinds of conditions!

[Bigtymer]

I agree. The stampede of riders from the summit beat it down nicely. Its the same way at the ski area too.

[cramer]

Looking at it as a trail worker, I see things a little differently. I rode about 2/3 of the trail wed. night and counted at least 6 spots where riders have basically created new trails parallel to the old trail. This has the effect of widening the trail and creating a major scar on the land. Because the new lines were created spontaneously, it's unlikely they will be any more sustainable than the original trail and most will quickly deteriorate to the same condition as the old lines they replaced. This is unacceptable to the DNR and consequently, re-routes will probably be made to address the problems. I understand that if a trail gets too hard to ride, people will find a new line around things but some of these were NOT difficult at all and it looks like riders are just being lazy and making new lines to avoid a 2" root for example. I just hope that when the re-routes are done eventually, the MMBA isn't blamed for dumbing down the trail. The reality is that the riders themselves actually caused the dumbing down when they decided the original trail was too much effort for them to ride and started making new lines.

Cramer

[Bigtymer]

Yeah that happens at every trail, and no matter what you do or how much breath you waster, people just don't listen. Just like the parking on the road at SGA, or parking at the old barn on kies for luton park. Horses pooping on our trail, where it clearly has sign that so no horses. Or how about my favorite people still riding a trail after it rains or before the winter snow thaws. The trail is in the best shape its been all season and next time I go out I'll through some big sticks over those stupid reroutes the lazy mtn bikers created. I saw them today when I rode this afternoon.

[TrailBomber88]

[quote][Looking at it as a trail worker, I see things a little differently. I rode about 2/3 of the trail wed. night and counted at least 6 spots where riders have basically created new trails parallel to the old trail. This has the effect of widening the trail and creating a major scar on the land. Because the new lines were created spontaneously, it's unlikely they will be any more sustainable than the original trail and most will quickly deteriorate to the same condition as the old lines they replaced. This is unacceptable to the DNR and consequently, re-routes will probably be made to address the problems. I understand that if a trail gets too hard to ride, people will find a new line around things but some of these were NOT difficult at all and it looks like riders are just being lazy and making new lines to avoid a 2" root for example. I just hope that when the re-routes are done eventually, the MMBA isn't blamed for dumbing down the trail. The reality is that the riders themselves actually caused the dumbing down when they decided the original trail was too much effort for them to ride and started making new lines.

Cramer/quote]

I agree with that.

I'm new with building and mantaining trails, so I don't know all the offical rules on what can be done on the fly. But if there is no proplems with covering up the spots that were blazed through by riders, I'll be out there on Monday.

But if I'm not supposed to do this than I won't.

[cramer]

It's easy for this to quickly get into a battle with whomever is making the new lines and it's probably not worth it. I think if you see a blatant shortcut where the original trail is fine but someone just wanted to make it easier, that may be worth covering up. If the original line is really tore up then closing the new line is probably not going to help as it will just get re-opened. FYI, if it's a legit re-route or repair you shouldn't even be able to see where the old line was, it will be covered up and the ground below loosened up to allow plants to grow there again.

You guys are probably right and that overall it's in really good shape compared to past years, I just tend to fixate on a few negative things when I see them sometimes.

Cramer

[sworks88]

Cramer,

I rode out there for the first time ever today...and the trail was awesome. I never saw any droppings on the trail...but I did on the road. Overall the trail was fast and fun. No complaints from me. Keep up the good work!

[Bigtymer]

I know how you feel. It ticks me off too!

[mtb.andy]

Rode today. Couple mud holes that sneak up on you but overall trail is dry.

[donjoses]

I'm going to be in Grand Rapids next weekend and I'll have Saturday morning to get in a quick ride. Last time I was in the area I rode Yankee Springs, which was great. Sounds like Cannonsburg SGA has some good trails also. How many miles are there to ride, and is there a place I can get a map? Didn't see anything obvious in this forum. Should I ride Cannonsburg or head back to Yankee Springs? Thanks! Brad