E-MTBS at Pontiac Lake

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Re: E-MTBS at Pontiac Lake

Postby bax » September 15th, 2018, 8:50 pm

mmba7349 wrote:Kidding aside. If this practice can jeopardize our trails it needs to be dealt with.


Rode the Triple Trail Challenge today (Great event) and at one of the road crossings a guy was giving the riders the "what for" about how we're doing equivalent to one years damage to the trail....I can see the potential for loss as well as expansion due to E bikes.
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Re: E-MTBS at Pontiac Lake

Postby Storz » September 16th, 2018, 11:12 am

Saw these two out at PLRA today.
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Re: E-MTBS at Pontiac Lake

Postby Hudnut » September 16th, 2018, 12:48 pm

They were driving a newer white F150 king ranch with a small white box trailer.
Don't worry. It's all downhill from here.
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Re: E-MTBS at Pontiac Lake

Postby c0nsumer » September 16th, 2018, 1:58 pm

Hudnut wrote:They were driving a newer white F150 king ranch with a small white box trailer.


Get plates, report to DNR.
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Re: E-MTBS at Pontiac Lake

Postby Mack » September 17th, 2018, 11:12 am

Sorry for the slow reply.Yep CO is a DNR Conservation Officer. They
are not the park rangers, you see @ state parks. A CO has all the law
enforcements capabilities of a police officer, Plus the wildlife / land
side of it.
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Re: E-MTBS at Pontiac Lake

Postby Roy » September 19th, 2018, 8:09 am

True, but even a non officer, park workers carry radios.
So, tell your concern to anybody park person with a radio.
" he can't out race a radio"
There is a good chance there an officer in radio range of PLR!

Do we still have MMBA safety patrollers with radios?


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Re: E-MTBS at Pontiac Lake

Postby c0nsumer » September 19th, 2018, 8:31 am

Roy wrote:Do we still have MMBA safety patrollers with radios?


1) The MMBA does nothing on trails anymore. Locally it's CRAMBA.
2) CRAMBA's bike patrol does not carry radios. Cell phones are their link to the outside world.
3) The Bike Patrol is NOT there to police trails. The can advise and inform, but they are not enforcement.
4) Trail advocates work in support of the land manager. We don't own the trails, we don't have authority over the trails.

What really needs to happen here is the land manager (DNR) needs to add signage and whatnot, IF they wish to exclude eMTBs from trails. I know they are working on an approach to this issue, in conjunction with CRAMBA, as eMTBs at is concerning to them.
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Re: E-MTBS at Pontiac Lake

Postby Roy » September 19th, 2018, 9:58 am

So, Steve,
If I read between your words, without signage, there is nothing stopping E-Bikes from ridding the trails.
So why yell at the E-Bike riders when the Land Mangers have not posted signs?
And then if the land mangers do not enforce their rules after posting signs, the E-Bikers are still free to ride.

It is kind of like the Dog walkers at Stoney in the winter.
Dog walking tracks go right past the sign ( at top of hill ) saying no dog walking , and dog walking tracks are over all the ski trails.
Has a dog walker ever been ticketed for walking on the a ski trail at stoney? (and its would be so easy to do)
Do you really think posting signs without enforcement will make any difference?

I know, first things first, you have to try to get the signs posted, but that is just the first step!

Roy

Can a bike patrol can the office and advise that there is a 4 wheeler on the trail?
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Re: E-MTBS at Pontiac Lake

Postby c0nsumer » September 19th, 2018, 10:47 am

You're right. There is nothing to stop people from riding eBikes on the trails. Even rule enforcement after the fact provides disincentive to the riders, but it does not actually stop them.

This is the same as how there's nothing to outright stop MTBers from riding hiking or equestrian trails, except the MTBers themselves.

There's also nothing in place to stop you from killing. Welcome to how the rule of law and society works.

We behave because it's the right thing to do and so we don't have problems.
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Re: E-MTBS at Pontiac Lake

Postby joemel08 » September 19th, 2018, 11:31 am

Just my opinion here. I think the DNR may just let Ebikes exist on the trails. No signage and now real enforcement, how does one even know its not allowed. I maybe misreading it, but the softness on the issue is pretty revealing.
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Re: E-MTBS at Pontiac Lake

Postby c0nsumer » September 19th, 2018, 12:22 pm

joemel08 wrote:Just my opinion here. I think the DNR may just let Ebikes exist on the trails. No signage and now real enforcement, how does one even know its not allowed. I maybe misreading it, but the softness on the issue is pretty revealing.


It's actually the opposite. This has been covered in internal meetings, they are working on a plan, and they are not in favor of eBikes on trails. They are working on how to handle it, because as we all can see, education and enforcement is a very complicated thing.

To note, the DNR COs have talked to eBike users at Pontiac Lake. There is also DNR-approved No eBikes signage at DTE.
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Re: E-MTBS at Pontiac Lake

Postby Critter7r » September 19th, 2018, 4:07 pm

c0nsumer wrote:
joemel08 wrote:Just my opinion here. I think the DNR may just let Ebikes exist on the trails. No signage and now real enforcement, how does one even know its not allowed. I maybe misreading it, but the softness on the issue is pretty revealing.


It's actually the opposite. This has been covered in internal meetings, they are working on a plan, and they are not in favor of eBikes on trails. They are working on how to handle it, because as we all can see, education and enforcement is a very complicated thing.

To note, the DNR COs have talked to eBike users at Pontiac Lake. There is also DNR-approved No eBikes signage at DTE.



And while "they" work on a plan - for an issue we've known was gaining momentum for at least 2 years now - e-bikes are establishing presence and precedence on trails.

For me, e-bikes are motorized vehicles, full stop. If it's a non-motorized trail, e-bikes don't belong on it. Even if you're a disabled vet with PTSD, a service dog, a Purple Heart, a missing leg, and a Congressional Medal of Honor.
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Re: E-MTBS at Pontiac Lake

Postby tmbrown » September 19th, 2018, 5:19 pm

The DNR approved the No E-Bikes, No-Pedal Assist signage at Highland, they were installed the next day, after the meeting, he also provided this PDF.


[*]1
Michigan’s Electric Bicycle Legislation
Questions and Answers
November 2, 2017

On October 30, 2017, Governor Snyder signed into law HB 4781, 4782 and 4783. These bills, now Public
Acts 138, 139 and 140, authorize the use of “electric bicycles” in Michigan subject to the limitations
within them. This is a summary of the law presented in a Question and Answer format. The summary
was prepared by Jim Conboy and Bob Wilson. Jim serves on the boards of both the Top of Michigan
Trails Council (TOMTC) and Michigan Trails & Greenways Alliance (MGTA). Bob Wilson is Executive Director
of MTGA. Jim and Bob appreciate the review of the text undertaken by Luther Kurtz, President of
TOMTC, and Jeff Winegard, Executive Director of TOMTC. This document does not constitute legal advice.
If you need legal advice regarding the electric bicycle law please consult an attorney.

Question 1: When do the Acts take effect?
Answer: 90 days from October 30 which is January 28, 2018.

Question 2: What is an “electric bicycle”?
Answer: “Electric bicycle” means a device upon which an individual may ride and that is equipped with
all of the following:
-A seat or saddle for use by the rider.
-Fully operable pedals for human propulsion.
- An electric motor of not greater than 750 watts (1h.p).

Question 3: What are the classes of electric bicycles?
Answer:
“Class 1 electric bicycle” means an electric bicycle that is equipped with an electric motor that
provides assistance only when the rider is pedaling and that disengages or ceases to function
when the electric bicycle reaches a speed of 20 miles per hour.
2
“Class 2 electric bicycle” means an electric bicycle that is equipped with a motor that propels
the electric bicycle to a speed of no more than 20 miles per hour, whether the rider is pedaling or
not, and that disengages or ceases to function when the brakes are applied.
“Class 3 electric bicycle” means an electric bicycle that is equipped with a motor that provides
assistance only when the rider is pedaling and that disengages or ceases to function when the
electric bicycle reaches a speed of 28 miles per hour.

Question 4: How will I be able to tell if an electric bicycle is a class 1, 2 or 3?
Answer: Beginning on January 1, 2018, a manufacturer or distributor of electric bicycles offered for sale
or distribution in Michigan must permanently affix in a prominent location on the electric bicycle a label
that contains the classification number, top assisted speed, and motor wattage of the electric bicycle.

Question 5: Besides placement of a label are there any other requirements for what must be on an electric
bicycle?
Answer: An electric bicycle must comply with applicable equipment and manufacturing requirements for
electric bicycles established under federal law, including standards adopted by the United States Consumer
Product Safety Commission and compiled in 16 CFR part 1512. At this time these federal requirements
are not unique to electric bicycles. Thus, if an electric bicycle meets the standards for non-electric
bicycles that is all that is required under federal law.

Question 6: Are electric bicycles subject to all the same legal requirements applicable to non-electric
bicycles?
Answer: Yes, when riding an electric bicycle you must observe all the safety requirements applicable to
non-electric bicycles including riding with traffic, using hand signals for turns and stops, stopping at stop
signs, and the use of lights at night.

Question 7: Can I ride electric bicycles on city, county, and state roads?
Answer: Yes you can ride electric bicycles on any roads where a non-electric bicycle can be ridden including
designated bicycle lanes. There is an exception to this rule for Mackinac Island, no electric bicycles
are allowed to be operated on the Island. However, the law allows for electric bicycles on the Island
if a permit is provided by the Mackinac Island State Park or if the City of Mackinac Island adopts a resolution
allowing for electric bicycles.

Question 8: Can anyone ride electric bicycles?
3
Answer: Anyone can ride a class 1 or class 2 electric bicycle, subject to the provisions of the law. However,
a class 3 electric bicycle shall not be operated by an individual less than 14 years of age. An individual
less than 14 years of age may ride as a passenger on a class 3 electric bicycle that is designed to
accommodate passengers.

Question 9: Must I wear a helmet when riding an electric bicycle?
Answer: It is always advisable to wear a helmet anytime you are riding a bicycle, however there is no
helmet requirement in Michigan when riding any type of bicycle except for a class 3 electric bicycle. An
individual less than 18 years of age who operates or rides as a passenger on a class 3 electric bicycle
must wear a properly fitted and fastened bicycle helmet.

Question 10: Can I ride an electric bicycle on a trail?
Answer: The answer depends on several factors — the class of the electric bicycle, the type of trail, and
whether the authority that has jurisdiction over the trail permits the use of electric bicycles. “Authority” includes
any state or local governmental entity having jurisdiction over a trail. This includes the Department
of Natural Resources, counties, villages, townships and cities. The law defines two types of trails:
Natural surface trails are trails designated as non-motorized and have a natural surface tread
that is made by clearing and grading the native soil with no added surfacing materials such as
asphalt, crushed lime stone, or similar material. No electric bicycles are permitted on these trails
unless the authority having jurisdiction over the trail has authorized electric bicycles i.e.,“opted in”.
Linear trails are trails that have an asphalt, crushed limestone, or similar surface.Class 1 electric
bicycles may be operated on these trails as soon as the law goes into effect. Authorities having
jurisdictions over these trails can “opt out” i.e. prohibit class 1 electric bicycles on these trails.
Examples of ‘linear trails” include the North Central State Trail, the North Eastern State Trail, the
North Western State Trail, the Little Traverse Wheelway, and the Huron Sunrise Trail. Class 2
and 3 electric bicycles cannot be operated on these trails unless the authority having jurisdiction
over the trail “opts in” i.e. permits them on the trail.
Rail Trails: The law also authorizes Class 1 electric bicycles on “rail trails” unless the trail’s authority
“opts out”. Class 2 and 3 electric bicycles are not permitted on “rail trails” unless the trail’s
authority “opts in”.

Question 11: If an authority who has jurisdiction over a trail wishes to change the rule regarding whether
electric bicycles can or cannot operate on a trail, what must it do?
4
Answer: Before an authority may change the status of electric bicycles on trails within its jurisdiction as
prescribed by the new law it must hold a public hearing. Subsequent to a hearing an authority can expand
or restrict usage and also set conditions for use of electric bicycles on a trail. It is expected the
DNR and other authorities will be considering changes and restrictions on usage of various trails in the
future.

Question 12: Does the new Michigan electric bicycle law apply to a federal congressionally authorized
public trail?
Answer: No, the federal government regulates those trails within Michigan

Question 13: How do the Americans With Disabilities Act and similar acts protecting the disabled fit
within this new Michigan law?
Answer :The State or local authority which has jurisdiction over a trail must comply with the Americans
With Disabilities Act of 1990, Public Law 101-336, and the Persons With Disabilities Civil Rights Act,
1976 PA 220, MCL 37.1101 to 37.1607.

Question 14: I already own an electric bike. How will the new law affect me?
Answer: There is no requirement you obtain a label to put on your bike. However, if after market labels
become available (ask your dealer) it would be a good idea to get one applicable to your electric bike.
Your electric bike will be subject to the restrictions on its use on roads and trails in Michigan. For example,
if you have a class 2 electric bike it will not be permitted on a linear trail unless the authority having
jurisdiction over a linear trail “opts in” to permit class 2 electric bikes on its trail. If you presently own a
class 1 electric bicycle, it will be permitted on a linear trail as of January 28, 2018.

Question 15:I have an electric bike that has a throttle on it. Does it come within the new electric bicycle
law?
Answer: Yes. It would be a class 2 electric bike assuming it cannot exceed 20mph when engaged and it
disengages the motor when brakes are applied.

Question 16: What is the penalty for violating the new electric bicycle law?
Answer: It depends on the authority who has jurisdiction over the road or trail where the violation occurred.
Typically it will be a civil infraction resulting in fines, which in the case of a DNR trail can be as
much as $500.
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Re: E-MTBS at Pontiac Lake

Postby b_b » September 19th, 2018, 8:05 pm

Specialized has a big EBike add on their home page.
Says it multiplies your power by 4X!
Who wouldn't want that!
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Re: E-MTBS at Pontiac Lake

Postby DynoDon » September 20th, 2018, 7:04 am

This is what the DNR are trying to stop, big busine$$, Here is the newest from Specialized in E Bikes, way too expensive for me, but I don't want one anywhy, wheight is down to around 40 pounds, power is up, I question how long can they be stopped?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjfldYDVXIo
Don't forget to tighten the loose nut between the handlebars, and the seat.
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