Rode DTE today

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Re: Rode DTE today

Postby c0nsumer » May 17th, 2019, 11:24 am

rcab23 wrote:The problem IMO is the way some people go about telling these people. I understand frustration with trail conditions, and directions, but usually in my experience having a civil conversation and maybe guilt tripping them to realizing what they did works 10x better than just screaming "WRONG WAY IDIOT" or "I HOPE YOURE AT TRAIL DAY *beep*". If your nice and just inform them usually they budge or feel terrible for doing the incorrect thing, and if they ARE an ass and ignore then just call them out simply. This was huge for me 2 years ago when I first got into it and was uneducated about everything. Riding ruts isnt as bad as people make it out to be, and the fixing isnt either. But rules are rules. Same goes for alternate direction trails, you should ride with caution and if your going to be cranking it you should already be looking plenty ahead anyways so thats on you if you run into somebody. This is all my personal opinion and testimonials however.


You're right, this is real big. Just this past Saturday I was out at ILRA, riding with a buddy, when he dropped his chain about 20' behind me. After waiting for a minute he was still having some trouble, so I swung my bike around and just then a guy came flying past us, screaming at me WRONG WAY while I was standing -- facing backwards -- on the side of the trail.

Not that he needed to ask if we were okay or offer help, but there was definitely an immediate presumption (and lashing out at) someone doing something wrong. As you say this does no one any good.
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Re: Rode DTE today

Postby branden » May 17th, 2019, 11:31 am

> The problem IMO is the way some people go about telling these people.

Sure, there are jerks on both sides. I always assume that someone who went the wrong way just got confused and I simply say "wrong way" and continue saying it if they don't listen. Definitely no shouting or name calling from me or anyone else I've rode with. Most people I've encountered going the wrong way will apologize and turn around. Others just straight up ignore you and continue going the wrong way.

The guy I mentioned above had already heard multiple other people up ahead tell him he was going the wrong way and was already very visibly angry. When I would not yield to him he started flailing his arms and yelled at me to "read the F'ing sign". There was no way we were going to have a civil conversation had I stopped. Some people really just can't be helped.

> you should ride with caution and if your going to be cranking it you should already be looking plenty ahead anyways so thats on you if you run into somebody

Really? That's my fault if I run into someone who was going the wrong way!? I'm not sure what trails you are riding where you always have a clean line of sight 20 to 30 feet ahead...
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Re: Rode DTE today

Postby c0nsumer » May 17th, 2019, 11:38 am

branden wrote:Really? That's my fault if I run into someone who was going the wrong way!? I'm not sure what trails you are riding where you always have a clean line of sight 20 to 30 feet ahead...


I never said it'd be your fault if you ran into someone, but you definitely should be looking out.

I can tell you that I sure as *beep* am NOT hammering to the point where I can't stop within the distance I can see. If a trail is tight or overgrown to the point where you can't see the distance it'll take to stop, you're going too fast. Who knows what's around that corner. It's probably not a wrong-way rider, but it very well could be a branch hanging across the trail, a runner, a washout, someone stopped with a flat... who knows.
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Re: Rode DTE today

Postby branden » May 17th, 2019, 11:46 am

I agree for the most part... A wrong way rider around a blind corner is very dangerous even if you are riding pretty cautiously. If they are going the same speed as you then the time to react before a collision is cut in half.
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Re: Rode DTE today

Postby c0nsumer » May 17th, 2019, 11:51 am

For sure. Jeremy, TC at River Bends, had a guy coming the wrong way hit him head-on and break his brake hose/lever. (The other guy got seriously cut up in the process.)

I had someone else -- on a two way section of trail at River Bends (since made one-way) hammering and riding so out of control that I stopped when I saw him, and he slammed on his brakes and endo'd on to me and my bike, bending my wheel.

Overall, though, my experience is that wrong-way folks are usually so inexperienced that they are going slow and often just pull over the moment they see someone who looks like they know what they are doing. Thus a "hey, just so you know, the trail is one way in this direction" usually does the trick. I'd say half the time with that I realize the person is lost or in over their head, and stopping and pointing them a quicker way out changes their experience for the positive.
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Re: Rode DTE today

Postby b_b » May 17th, 2019, 12:17 pm

Encountered guy on Lakeview blind fast corner last week! We both stopped and veered right so was all good. He said sorry I laughed thought what no and said thank you! That was first time I didn't see oncoming bike with plenty of time.
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Re: Rode DTE today

Postby Exodus » May 17th, 2019, 12:38 pm

Roy wrote:If you are ridding a 2 way trail, slow down.
Only a nut would think people are not going to ride in the wrong direction.
I do not think you want police enforcement on a Mountain Bike trail.
Sometimes you get more then you wish for - and with government you always get way more.

"STOP POLICE, your bike license and proof of ownership. I stopped you because you have an illegal water bottle and no spoke reflectors. "
" this is ticket for under inflated tires, You can pay me $100 here, or I can escort you to jail".
Don't think for a minute this could not happen once the gum drop boys hit the trails.

Hey!
I got stopped, on a rail trail, by two clowns in a car and made pay cash for ridding that trail.


Roy


Are you serious....

Its not a 2-way trail. Its a one way trail that alternates days.

If someone cant follow basic directions, they should get fined. Dont make f*ing excuses for dumb people or people who refuse to follow the rules. Ever heard of traffic laws? If you dont follow the rules you get in trouble.

And stop with your straw man BS about reflectors and water bottles.
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Re: Rode DTE today

Postby b_b » May 17th, 2019, 12:51 pm

Just get this. Problem solved!

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Re: Rode DTE today

Postby Critter7r » May 17th, 2019, 2:47 pm

Is there not giant signs by the trail heads that say "Enter here Mon, Wed, Fri, Sun" with "Tues, Thurs, Sat" inside a red circle with a line thru it? And the opposite sign at the other entrance/exit?

Are there multiple entrances? I don't know that particular trail, but most of the trails around here could get by with a handful of signs, having only 1 or 2 entrance points. Island Lake would probably need the most, with all the road crossings.
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Re: Rode DTE today

Postby c0nsumer » May 17th, 2019, 2:48 pm

Critter7r wrote:Is there not giant signs by the trail heads that say "Enter here Mon, Wed, Fri, Sun" with "Tues, Thurs, Sat" inside a red circle with a line thru it? And the opposite sign at the other entrance/exit?

Are there multiple entrances? I don't know that particular trail, but most of the trails around here could get by with a handful of signs, having only 1 or 2 entrance points. Island Lake would probably need the most, with all the road crossings.


DTE has very few entrances.

ILRA would be a pain, yeah. Stony would be nigh-impossible to have reversing. Addison and Pontiac Lake would be very difficult as well.
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Re: Rode DTE today

Postby flamingo » May 17th, 2019, 4:29 pm

Exodus wrote:
Roy wrote:If you are ridding a 2 way trail, slow down.
Only a nut would think people are not going to ride in the wrong direction.
I do not think you want police enforcement on a Mountain Bike trail.
Sometimes you get more then you wish for - and with government you always get way more.

"STOP POLICE, your bike license and proof of ownership. I stopped you because you have an illegal water bottle and no spoke reflectors. "
" this is ticket for under inflated tires, You can pay me $100 here, or I can escort you to jail".
Don't think for a minute this could not happen once the gum drop boys hit the trails.

Hey!
I got stopped, on a rail trail, by two clowns in a car and made pay cash for ridding that trail.


Roy


Are you serious....

Its not a 2-way trail. Its a one way trail that alternates days.

If someone cant follow basic directions, they should get fined. Dont make f*ing excuses for dumb people or people who refuse to follow the rules. Ever heard of traffic laws? If you dont follow the rules you get in trouble.

And stop with your straw man BS about reflectors and water bottles.


+1000
Bi-directional trails suck and are dangerous. There is too much of "we have to be inclusive and polite" attitude. At the end of the day a large part of the enjoyment of mountain biking is to be able to go fast. Last year I had a head on collision in Copper Harbor. I was climbing and I was just behind a blind curve when a guy came out at full speed and did not get to stop and crashed into me. He was very apologetic about it. I said not to worry because if it was me descending the same probably would have happened. And please don't tell me the "You gotta be in control of your bike all the time". It takes distance to stop no matter how much in control of the bike you are. What the heck is the point of building fast and flowy trails if one can not fully enjoy them because of dual direction traffic? Yes I had to back track myself few times and I did it with most care. And yes when I see people going in the opposite direction I will say "you are riding in the wrong way buddy, it is dangerous". An aquaintance of mine crashed int a tree at Pontiac (by the airfield) years ago and broke his collar bone because a stupid kid was riding in the opposite direction. I also got yelled at by a loser who was walking his dog at Addison bike trail because I was going too fast accordingly to him.
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Re: Rode DTE today

Postby DynoDon » May 18th, 2019, 5:19 am

Thursday I rode close to 30 miles on DTE, I seen one guy come on Winn the wrong way, insisting he was going the right direction, he went a few miles before turning around, a woman started out on Kame in the wrong direction untill I told her she was going wrong, Then after I spent time with a guy waiting for the Rokon motorcycle ambulance from the city of Chelsea, about the middle of Winn, a couple was coming at me on bikes, I stopped then asked him, "do you know you're going the wrong way?" He answered Yeah, and kept going, I then tolld the women he was riding with they were going to cause an accident, she just ignored me. and kept riding, they never even slowed down, and they were at least 3 miles in.
The real issue here is SAFTEY, not sustainablity, the trails will heal better then some of the people do. When I started riding in the early 80's the only trail I knew was Poto, it was directional, it was directional (one way) before mountain bikes for XC skiing too. Now many trails are going two way, how ever you word it, its both directions during the day, alternating, or not. When Green first opened it was insane, lots of people goiing the wrong direction. It seems people just want to ride, but are so confused, or inconsiderate they just go, or they go the way they like the flow. if the trails only went in one direction they would be safer, if you want to go backwards ride at night.
DTE isn't overgrown yet, that will pose even more danger, especially with the new tighter Sugar Loop, and none of these trails are overgrown yet.
I haven't ridden DTE much after my early experiences on Green when it opened, I've been riding it more this year, its easy to keep momentum, and get alot of miles fast, I don't mind crashing, I just don't like recovering, it takes too much time.
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We die when we stop playing with bikes...
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Re: Rode DTE today

Postby Roy » May 19th, 2019, 10:02 am

Like cOmsumer pointed out, most trails are 2 way, and every 1 way trail can be a 2 way when there are runners and hikers are using it.
You should be in control of your speed. Most of the time you can hear other bikes coming from behind or in front.
DTE planners created a built in problem when they decided to change the trail direction every day. But that is a
done deal. ( until a biker or runner get badly injured and the law lawyers smell money)
Just know there will be wrong way ridders almost every time you ride DTE. You always need to look out
for Joggers and Hikers on all the other trails you ride. There is always going to be a rider with his (or hers) head down,
going the wrong way, hammering out his personal best time.

Just don't yell out," wrong way JERK"!

Roy
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Re: Rode DTE today

Postby Leroi Brown » May 20th, 2019, 10:29 am

b_b wrote:Encountered guy on Lakeview blind fast corner last week! We both stopped and veered right so was all good. He said sorry I laughed thought what no and said thank you! That was first time I didn't see oncoming bike with plenty of time.


I think that may have been me! Sorry about barreling through there and I had hoped that my apology came across as sincere :-) I was on my cross bike and may have swung a little wide on the corner, so I apologize. Good part is, we were both paying attention and were both cool about it, which is how it should be. It's not difficult to be cool :-)

Those two-way sections really keep one on their toes, that's for sure!! Hope you had a great ride!!
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Re: Rode DTE today

Postby conomac » May 21st, 2019, 1:31 pm

Roy[/quote]

Maybe we should have just kept Michigan a one direction state, keeping it more IDIOT proof.. much better then injuring people out for a ride.[/quote]

If people can’t get it right with all the signage on these two-way trails, making trails one-way won’t fix it. Let’s not cater to the idiots. Two-way trails doubles the trail mileage - huge huge huge benefit for all the short MI trails. Two way trails are the norm around the country and even most of Northern MI. There are plenty of areas I’ve been to where the sight lines are very limited, blind corners, shared use trails. In mountain bike Mecca’s like CO, WA, AZ, UT trails are typically bi-directional meaning you ride them either way any time. For reference I’ve ridden in over half the states.

At my local trail I saw a lot more people going the wrong way when the trail was one-way than I do now that it’s two-way.


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